Why Ita Buttrose used to spy on ABC hosts’ Twitter posts

All of this, she says, culminated in her being named ABC chairwoman by former prime minister Scott Morrison in 2019. She stepped down in March, after her five-year term, to make way for Kim Williams. An avid consumer of news, she has read Lunch with the AFR columns before.

“I always look at the bill,” Buttrose says, as drinks are poured (shiraz for me, chardonnay for her). “So, we have to be careful.” The fresh basil smells great.

Her new book, she says, will reflect the health issues she spends a lot of time representing – dementia, macular degeneration, osteoporosis and brain care. “We estimate there’s 1.5 million to 2 million Australians caring for people with dementia,” she says. “So there’s a lot of people caring. And one in seven Australians know someone with dementia.”

“Lecanemab” – a word I have to Google later – “is a drug that seems to be showing some progress in slowing down the progression of the disease … but it’s expensive,” she says. “So, it’s with the TGA [Therapeutic Goods Administration]. It hasn’t been approved by the TGA yet. It is such a breakthrough.”

Mangan walks in carrying the entrees. “The amazing fig tart. The amazing sashimi,” he says, then leaves. It’s Spencer Gulf Hiramasa kingfish sashimi with dashi and sesame dressing, pickled plum and radish for me; fig and blue cheese tart, with caramelised onion and rocket salad for Buttrose.

Buttrose’s father, renowned journalist Charles Oswald Buttrose, died in 1999 just shy of his 90th birthday from vascular dementia – hence his daughter’s passion. Charles’ youngest brother, Gerald, is still alive at 100.

“He’s fantastic,” Buttrose says of her uncle. “He still rings me up, and he reads the Sydney Morning Herald avidly, every day. And when he rings I think, ‘Oh, god, I hope I’ve read enough of the Herald to have this conversation’. Because he knows all the stories.” He also had strong views about the ABC. “I’d often hear from him,” she says.

‘Only natural’ that ABC is losing audience

Buttrose took over at the ABC at a time of crisis. The tenure of former chairman Justin Milne and managing director Michelle Guthrie had ended in flames. New managing director David Anderson and Buttrose set about righting the ship, and its crew of about 4000 people. It is immediately striking that Buttrose talks about the ABC as a “we”, not “they” or “it”.

“We’re the nation’s most trusted media organisation, and the most significant cultural institution,” she says. Williams’ criticism of the ABC when he took the role was that it did not do enough of the arts. Buttrose, unprompted, seemed to address this.

“Along with my media career, which includes admin, working on the road, being a journalist, being a broadcaster, being a TV person, I’ve also been patron of the Australian Opera. I chaired the Australian Ballet. I’ve been on Sydney Symphony Council for many, many years. I chaired the Opera Festival in Canberra. I’ve been on the Adelaide Arts Festival board. So, I did have arts experience as well.”

“And I think that combination of media and arts equips a person quite well for the ABC … I think we forget the cultural aspect of the ABC at our peril.”

You’d never see Bluey on commercial TV, she says. It was an ABC-backed project, alongside BBC Studios. It was also the second most-watched TV show in the US last year, behind Suits.

“The ABC does things that other networks will never do,” she says. “I think the news that we publish, and the investigations that we do, and I’m thinking of some of the Aged Care Royal Commission, for instance – that never would have happened without the ABC. It is fearless.”

But the ABC’s audience is shrinking. It has never been used by fewer Australians. That, Buttrose says, is true of all media outlets. “I think it’s only natural that you would lose some of your audience,” she says. Young people are getting news from social media. All media outlets are struggling to reinvent themselves.

“The commercial networks are losing their people more rapidly than we are. I think it’s just a sign of the times, quite frankly.”

Our mains arrive. Steamed coral trout with sauce vierge for Buttrose, seared and poached beef fillet with zucchini, basil and pine nuts for me.

Another sign of the times is journalists using social media. Buttrose admits she does – or did – use Twitter, now X.

“I did sometimes look at it to see what the troops were up to. You’ve got to keep abreast of what the troops are doing. I don’t ask other people to do my work for me. Just every now and again, I’d look in to see what they were all up to. It’s folly, if you don’t keep an eye on what’s going on within your own organisation.”

Journalists should not share their private thoughts on things, Buttrose is adamant. “There’s too much opinionated journalism today, in my view,” she says. “And that began in newspapers when we started to give bylines to anyone who wrote anything. I think you have to earn the right to an opinion if you’re a journalist. That takes many years. Because it will always influence people who read your stories.

“I read on X – god, it’s a stupid name – [journalists] say, ‘blah, blah, blah’. I don’t think you can be there. It comes back and haunts you.”

She has no advice for Williams – he is his own man, she says. “Everyone in Australia tells you how to run the ABC. You can only run it the way you see it. It’s a bit like being a mother. Everyone gives you advice, but at the end of the day, you have to trust your own instincts.”

The veteran newspaper and magazine editor has many thoughts – as editors do. Journalists don’t have enough time for research now. “I can listen to interviews, and I’m thinking, ‘Ask them this, ask them that.’ They don’t know what to ask them because they haven’t done the research.”

There’s also a paucity of well-constructed language and effective sub-editors. “There’s something about being yelled at by the chief sub that makes you never do something that you might have done once ever again,” she says. “They used to be gods. Gods! I once spelt Bourke, the country town, wrongly. I spelt it Bourk, no ‘e’. You would have thought I killed the queen.”

Buttrose laments the state of broadcast television, which has been “dumbed down”. “I’m discerning in my tastes. I want to be entertained, but not with half-witted television. I think a lot of fun has gone out of television.”

She recalls a skit on the Mike Walsh show in which she danced and wore “glitter thongs”. “I don’t know if you’ve ever waltzed in glitter thongs,” she says, “but it’s quite hard.”

In the shift from terrestrial television to digital streaming, one free-to-air network will probably fold, she predicts. Turning off broadcast will happen sooner than we think, but not until the viewership is minuscule.

Lessons from leadership

Being a leader is fun, but also lonely, she reflects. It takes guts to stand up to loud mobs on social media, and it takes opinions.

“[Media companies] were run by people that had opinions. I think you could say that Sir Frank and Kerry Packer and Rupert Murdoch had very strong opinions.”

For the record, Buttrose is not in contact with Murdoch. “He’s too busy getting married again,” she points out.

“I think people are frightened of being leaders. They’re frightened of social media. They’re frightened of being on X. They’re probably frightened by a vocal minority. And they really need to get the guts back and lead.”

There’s a real leadership problem, particularly in the US, she says. “Why aren’t there people stepping up to be the president of the United States of America apart from Joe Biden and Donald Trump? Surely to god – surely to god – they’ve got some other leaders there that might like to be the president of the United States of America.”

One of her own leadership mentors was Sir Peter Abeles, the former Ansett and TNT boss, who taught her many lessons. He showed her how to manage her company’s bills during the recession in the 1990s.

“Sir Peter would say to me, ‘Tell him you would pay him half next week, another quarter the next week, and another quarter the next week.’ It always worked. He was a very good mentor. Very reassuring.”

He also told her to make friends. So, when Bob Hawke told Buttrose to call him if he could ever be of help, she remembered. “When I was thinking of someone to launch the magazine, I thought, ‘I know, Bob said give me a call.’ So, I rang his office, and I asked whether he would launch the magazine. And he did.”

So, how does Buttrose reflect on a passionate career? “I’ve just been here, and I’ve tried to do my best,” she says. “I’ve enjoyed what I’ve done. I don’t think I’ve finished yet. Don’t ask me what’s next. I don’t know.”